"Whiplash" Turbojet. With some fins to keep you stable and careful aim, you can hit your desired location and altitude and will have 5-10 seconds to collect data before you hurtle past it and pull your chute. I'd almost expect it to work better in stock since infini-gliders can be done. This tutorial will cover designing and flying a plane that can soar at high altitudes! So that means that even if you are inside the atmosphere but still orbital (such as during aerobraking), your science will not count as "Inside the atmosphere", For example, orbiting Kerbin above 250km altitude, your science is counted as "In Space High over Kerbin." That will probably allow you to fly comfortably above 20-25km (or higher, depending on the overall mass of your aircraft). I tried building a plane but can't climb higher than about 11,000m (I don't have many plane parts yet, though). If it's above the cross-hairs, you need a little less. Yes. Something that I think has become less clear since someone updated the wiki. The thrust of jets (turbo or otherwise) depends on airspeed: basics deliver more thrust at low speeds, while turbojets only really come into their own when you fly very fast (which also means flying very high, 20km and over). Aircraft can be very temperamental to fly, especially on the keyboard. 600+ m/s) and low altitudes (e.g. Right now, my big, fat plane has trouble breaking 10 km altitude and 200 m/s forward speed (largely due to its payload). and our if you just go into the SPH, slap together some parts like Legos, and go-- is to attach them with zero AoA. Now lets combine these two indicators: The best performance your engine can achieve is when you have an optimal amount of Air Flow (obviously) but also the MAXIMUM amount of Air Intake. The Kerbal Space Program subreddit. Using indicator constraint with two variables, Is there a solution to add special characters from software and how to do it. Why that? Powered by Invision Community, Thanks, I'll go try to stuff a few extra turbojets and intakes on my plane, I was generally under the impression that basic jets were mostly deadweight on high-performance aircraft: [] at hypersonic velocities. June 3, 2022 . This means that the only thing that decides wheter your engines run efficient is determined by how much thrust they produce (opt. You will find that when you're flying around, will always be slightly below the crosshairs on the navball. Air Intake) and how fast your aircraft ultimately flies (air resistance/altitude)! This way control surface max deflection can be programmed by an aircraft designer to make . Typically, I watch my Apoapsis as I boost to the high altitude, and there's enough momentum to coast to the peak before completely running out of fuel. Anyway thanks in advance. Air Flow + max. A full suite of flaps on the trailing edges of the main wings give it exceptional low-speed lift, and small hydroplane steps mounted on each side of the fuselage bottom help lift it out of the water (lowering water drag) during takeoff runs. Browse other questions tagged, Start here for a quick overview of the site, Detailed answers to any questions you might have, Discuss the workings and policies of this site. Be aware that heat buildup can gradually become a problem when the afterburners are used in sustained flight. All the information you could want to know about science, including the altitudes for each celestial body, and what altitudes a given experiment works on are available at: http://wiki.kerbalspaceprogram.com/wiki/Science. The Rapier, for example, works great as a high-altitude engine, precisely because it can go so fast. There is no such thing as "so high radar can not detect it", since radar can detect things in outer space. KSP - High Altitude Aircraft 16,702 views Jan 22, 2016 172 Dislike Share Save Phoenix Fleet Systems 222 subscribers Have a type of atmospheric craft you'd like to see me experiment with? I've since shaved that down more but that was by going even higher and even faster). I should perhaps start trying out NEAR to get ready of 0.90, though. The Inland Kerbal Space Center itself, being in effect the old Kerbal Space Center from 0.2. So I'm pretty darn new to KSP, and my career has barely gotten started, and the jobs for crew observations seem to dominate If your using NEAR/FAR, once you get high and fast, kill the engine and glide to save fuel. (Actually, four ways: but balloons aren't in the stock game) Lifting surfaces are great but they lose effectiveness just as fast with altitude as drag falls. Each stage of the rocket has a delta-v that depends on the stage fuel mass and the engine specific impulse. Originally posted by lord bird: yep thats right jool has a surface. All rights reserved. Air Intake: Air Intake shows the amount of force your engine uses to suck air into the turbine. For comparison, the second most maneuverable engine is the CR-7 R.A.P.I.E.R. Your link has been automatically embedded. Your previous content has been restored. This is particularly useful for pairs of engines, since this makes it possible to keep the thrust equal when activating the afterburners. Be sure to have enough intakes (I think maximum efficiency in stock is 1 ramjet intake per ~2 tons of plane, though that is aesthetically ridiculous), and if you're still running short of intake air, you can dip down a bit to speed up and get to denser air. I don't have the numbers handy, but you can expect something like 400m/s at 15km. If you want to cover your aircraft with loads of intakes, I'm sure you could easily fly above 35km and reach 2000+ m/s velocity. its rather flat but its a solid surface. If that's all a case of Too Many Words, think of it this way: Suppose you just build a plane the "default" way and don't put any. Unfortunately, there's no simple rule to tell you what the angle needs to be when you're building the plane-- it depends on lots of variables, such as your weight, drag, intended cruising altitude, intended cruising speed. When I say ", You know you've nailed it correctly if, when you're in level flight, your. That would argue for going as high as possible, as slow as possible, but apart from drag you also have to fight gravity. Site design / logo 2023 Stack Exchange Inc; user contributions licensed under CC BY-SA. Will post my results. Display as a link instead, Here's Mr. Manley using it in his tutorial: @Pvt.Grichmann: I think it's at specific locations on Kerbin, not just anywhere above 18km. even stranger is that the surface is textured. Dedicated to the growth and advancement of amateur rocket scientists! with a thrust vectoring range of only 3 degrees. Also, jets eat fuel at pounds-per-minute -- if you cover twice as much ground in the same time, your plane will be more efficient. Been a while since I've flown stock*, but I've heard that, for maximum efficiency, you want one turbojet for every 7.5 tons, and about four ram intakes for each turbojet. Building a rocket to fly vertical seems to be nearly impossible, in the atmosphere they tend to become unstable (or maybe I missed a trick?). What am I doing wrong here in the PlotLegends specification. For more information, please see our as a rule of thumb they all lose thrust at higher altitudes and at high velocities. But a rockets can do it. I find that a conservative amount is 2 RAM intakes and 2-4 radial intakes per turbojet. But you'll need to unlock: High Altitude Flight Which cost 300 science. Just sounds like the engines can't get enough air, in KSP high speed also generates air intake so I'm guessing what is happening is that you have the initial speed to get to altitude but the lack of air at altitude is starving the engine resulting in lower speed which further reduces air intake and it cascades until either the engine shuts down or you return to denser atmosphere at a lower altitude. Should i add a larger wing area for higher lift? Approximately 12km up the main engines stop providing enough thrust to maintain the climb, so it's time to switch to rocket mode. Under some circumstances, you may want to reduce the engine gimbal range or disable it altogether, particularly when flying at high speeds (e.g. What altitude and speed should I go? At sea level, it produces 120 kn thrust, but at 15 km altitude, it only produces 13.7 kn of thrust, barely enough to provide any thrust to climb higher, Long and narrow wing has less surface area to provide lift, and at higher altitude, the atmospher is so thin that the lift generated by long and narrow wings is insufficient for sustainable flight. http://kerbalspaceprogram.com, Press J to jump to the feed. KSP Quick Guides: High Altitude Design and Flying - Stock v.23 Stoober AK 3.32K subscribers Subscribe 21K views 8 years ago This tutorial will cover designing and flying a plane that can soar. Reddit and its partners use cookies and similar technologies to provide you with a better experience. You cannot paste images directly. I am currently designing a mission that will involve several very long distance plane flights. Maneuver node plans don't take drag into account, so you'll have to overshoot quite a bit to compensate. Your link has been automatically embedded. Powered by Invision Community. - "In Space High" means your craft is inside the given Sphere of Influence and above the "Space Border" altitude listed in the Celestial Body Multiplier Matrix. Arqade is a question and answer site for passionate videogamers on all platforms. It is usually best for initial designs to be based on logic and real-world physics and then be prepared to experiment with non-logical alternatives for optimisation. KSP doesn't care (much) about aspect ratio; the total lift is the same regardless of configuration. To get there, you're going to want to climb at the fastest rate you can manage to 18-20 km, at which point you should mostly level off and start accelerating horizontally. Orbiting is the most fun one: the higher the orbit, the less speed you need to maintain to stay in orbit, *and* the less air there is, so that's a double-whammy in terms of reducing fuel consumption. So I've created those two planes, both with weasley turbofan engine: This is your problem-- as folks have pointed out, it's not a high-altitude engine. It only takes a minute to sign up. First off as of .15.1 intakes don't do anything. Your airspeed is mostly limited by terminal velocity; you can go much faster if you climb a little higher. No, I think it's correct, unless I've got a brain fart going, here. All trademarks are property of their respective owners in the US and other countries. Are you using Stock or NEAR/FAR? I don't have that cockpit in my career game yet, but maybe it will work with the other one. Put a couple of radial mount parachutes just above the com and add a reaction wheel. Powered by Invision Community. I was even able to do this with three pairs of Junos instead of the large jet engine pair (I don't have the technology level for that). Strictly speaking this optimisation is unnecessary, but it can win you a bit of range. Main goals: Auto-trimming. I'm going to try adding a small solid fuel rocket engine toned down to get the initial height then dump it, as well as check into that high end gear mentioned. i dont know what kind of range youre looking for but i would make a significantly smaller plane. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. You are simply running out of atmosphere (i.e. It is somewhat slow but very steady in flight. Pvt. Display as a link instead, The ideal case for optimally efficient flight (which is what you want if you're trying to maximize cruise altitude) is when your wings are mounted to the body, pitched up just enough that when cruising in level flight, the body of the aircraft is pointing perfectly . Incidentally, for these speeds and altitudes, ordinary jets are the better choice. ksp high altitude planebad bunny tour 2022 tickets ksp high altitude plane. Since gravity is effectively lower, they don't need as much wing area to maintain altitude-- which, in turn, means less drag, which makes for more efficient flight. The U-2's published maximum altitude is somewhere above 74,000 feet. Thats my problem right now. To reach the initial low Earth orbit of the International Space Stationof 300 km (now 400 km), the delta-v is over six times higher, about 9.4 km/s. As long as the engine gets enough air it will work at proper efficiency. Third, which I haven't given a good try, would be a carefully-timed deorbit maneuver so you come down through your desired location as you fall from space. Which makes this engine ideal for those missions which require doing many science activities above particular altitudes. I don't recall if they model aspect ratio, but either way, the struts are murder and the delta wing has so much more wing that it'll still have more lift. The drag differential is because your long-wing layout is using a bunch of struts, and the reason your delta-wing has a higher ceiling is because it has more wing area to provide lift. Cheers again fellas. The most efficient way is, of course, to make a high altitude (or space) plane. FBW uses three controllers - pitch, roll and yaw. There is a very close tolerance to the two speeds. Welcome to the forums, ZDW. Because when your engine has to take in air forcefully it automatically means there isn't enough surrounding your engine and that again means that air density and therefor air resistance must be pretty low too. And it's stock, unfortunately. One problem is i'm running stock on career mode and only have 30 part to spare, so large planes are out of the question. That's all true, but just read the OP: hypersonic appears to be completely out of the question. I start with the normal jet engines (which takes almost the complete runway). I don't have that other stuff yet. Though I'm still working on learning to be better at space planes. In the stock atmosphere, the benefits of moving faster outweigh almost everything else. Information Changelog Stats 2/3 (KSP 1.11.2) - YouTube I break out the Mk2 parts and Panther engines to build a better jet that can go higher and faster. Subscribe -. I recommend using a solid rocket booster (or 2 or 5) to you get you the altitude and then launch a small rocket powered plane. How to know if you've nailed it perfectly: when you're cruising in level flight, you want the marker to be precisely centered in your navball cross-hairs. Thank you, I was able to reach up to 24km altitude with this design. I've added more engines, more intakes to no avail. Once I'm near or in the target area, I set the throttle to 0 and start the Swivel. As I understand, the OP wanted "the most efficient way to fly", and simply needed a bit of help in realizing that that is a hypersonic, high-altitude, high-performance aircraft which is a RAPIER and a little oxidizer away from being an SSTO spaceplane. rev2023.3.3.43278. Whiplash is the engine you would want to use on a plane meant to go 20km. The X-37 is operated by the United States Space Force for orbital spaceflight missions intended to demonstrate reusable space technologies. Have a plane that ditches its wings and rockets up to 18km once you reach the right point. Upload or insert images from URL. A little while back I spent a long time trying to circumnavigate Kerbin on the least liquid fuel possible (i posted the record to the sub: 254 units of fuel. 1 Pod outside the level 3 VAB. Immediately starting rocket engines at full throttle turned out to make most of my aircrafts totally unstable, turning them up gradually worked way better. I'm trying to build a high altitude plane and have found out that the rules are different. Pasted as rich text. However, it seems as if your delta wing has has more area, might that be it? I've been trying my hand at some High altitude speedy planes for a while now, but can't seem to get a hang of the altitudes that each engine likes, I know kerbal isn't earth, so looking up the crushing altitude of say the sr71, doesn't seem to apply, but I was hoping that others experiences would help me. principle. The J-404 "Panther" Afterburning Turbofan is a jet engine added in version 1.0.5. As said above, the Wheesley is specifically designed as a low altitude engine. Stack Exchange network consists of 181 Q&A communities including Stack Overflow, the largest, most trusted online community for developers to learn, share their knowledge, and build their careers.. Visit Stack Exchange jet engine efficiency in this game is based on built in thrust curves. Your link has been automatically embedded. Isn't that backwards snark? More air is better. Thanks. These designs are great for getting around Kerbin quickly, but without going orbital. I also set it to enable the cockpit's reaction wheels to improve control at high altitude, and close air intakes to reduce drag. 2.) Using Kolmogorov complexity to measure difficulty of problems? Which lets you go faster, which lets you climb higher. Can't remember where I saw/read about it - Scott Manley maybe? 3x06: I design a new, high altitude, jet to collect high atmospheric science. Basically I can hit a target altitude of 20,000m but can not maintain it. Pasted as rich text. It has two modes: The first, Dry mode, is similar to that of the J-33 "Wheesley" Basic Jet Engine, with a bit more thrust. Because of the exponential nature of the rocket equationthe orbital rocket needs to be considerably bigger. The Panther engine can hold 19,000 steady and oscillates around 20,000. To avoid running out of fuel altogether, I have a second plane with small tanks (no oxidizer) attached directly to the jet engines, and the rockets attached behind the fuselage, which is entirely oxidized tanks. To subscribe to this RSS feed, copy and paste this URL into your RSS reader. Which is capable of high altitude, high speed flight. - Spamming airintakes didn't help. All other versions are slower and lower and unstable in turns. Chapter 4. Make sure you have lots of control surfaces because at very high in the atmosphere, there's not much air for the wings to control the craft with. Is it possible to get to an altitude of 16-20km with normal plane engines? Learn more about Stack Overflow the company, and our products. I'm in career mode (have the turbofan engine) and trying to get some science readings for a mission at a high altitude. Mounting a time-limited rescue mission for kerbal inbound to Kerbin. So Pvt. What are the minimum altitudes for each warp level? Yes, you can get into that range with the high end stuff (whiplash engines and ram or shock cone air intakes). My 'plane science' is more advanced than my 'rocket science' (career mode) because I got tired of seeing all the high-altitude missions I had on the books and wanted to finish them. Any of my search term words; All of my search term words; Find results in. How to make a loop for linear actuator in Kerbal Space Program, Breaking Ground. To get higher with the low tech jet engines, you need rocket assist. This thread is quite old. . - but they were talking about having two intakes/engine. I decided to look into that two intakes thing, and it turns out to make 11-12 m/s difference at 19,000m with my plane. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. That annoys me but I can't seem to get a design to make it work. A well-designed jet with this engine and with the afterburner lit, flown properly, can momentarily climb to 30,000 m altitude. By clicking Accept all cookies, you agree Stack Exchange can store cookies on your device and disclose information in accordance with our Cookie Policy. Your previous content has been restored. The more successful the flights, the more successful the space program is. Please consider starting a new thread rather than reviving this one. But maybe your patience? Ok, the panther engine is still not good enough. My plane has turbojets and lots of fuel, but I am wondering what the optimal way to fly is. Personally, I don't enjoy survey contracts on Kerbin. high-2 A Screenshot of Kerbal Space Program 2022 Take-Two Interactive Software, Inc. Of course, this thing has very limited range, speed and acceleration because of the extra weight. If released at a speed of 700 or more m/s and an altitude of 20 or more km, the satellite will achieve orbit with its second stage mostly full, leaving it with approximately 1600 m/s of delta-V -- enough to achieve lunar or interplanetary orbits and, on small bodies, landings. Grichman's answer got me in the right direction. Even up there the plane acts squirrely. It seems to be based on the General Electric F-404 Afterburning Turbofan, which shares the same name and maximum thrust (85 kN dry). Do plugins for Kerbal Space Program work on unix? Then I increase throttle until about 2/3 or even full, climbing with a high inclination (it can also go straight up). In KSP2, you are a rocket scientist who must build and test rockets, spaceships, and planes. You can post now and register later. Building a High Altitude Jet | Stream pt. Thanks, I'll go try to stuff a few extra turbojets and intakes on my plane Do you know how many intakes/turbojet are needed to run in the regime you described? Secondly don't think of engines working better at different altitudes, think of them working better with different air intake quantities. This can be done with moar boosters or more calculated wing and body design, depending on the aero model you use. Evidence. Or try using SRBs instead. EDIT: Essentially, make like an SR-71, if an SR-71 didn't have cooling problems limiting it to Mach 3.4. As has been said, ISP is nothing to worry about. What's the difference between a power rail and a signal line? Delta-V is the velocity change necessary to perform orbital maneuvers. If the wings are flat and your plane steadily loses altitude in level flight at a given speed (as most designs will by default), it means you either need to pitch up slightly, increasing the angle of attack and keeping your vertical velocity at 0 by flying up slightly to compensate for the pull of gravity that lift isn't compensating for. So now to come to an end: from my experience I'd say for a medium sized aircraft it is best to fly between 12-13 km. As high and fast as you can go without engine flameout: preferably ~2000 m/s at 25-30 km (and yes, that's almost orbital velocity). 3x06: I design a new, high altitude, jet to collect high. It may work with stock too, I just don't know. Cookie Notice Clear editor. Its an approximation missing someelements. Kerbal Space Program 2 . I didn't succeed with his design, though; I always ended up having somehow unstable airplanes. I started by attaching two LV-909 rocket engines to a regular low-atmosphere plane: In this save, I don't have custom action groups yet, so I'm using the RCS control to toggle between jet and rocket modes. A destructible memorial to the old Mk. How to tell which packages are held back due to phased updates. The Boeing X-37, also known as the Orbital Test Vehicle (OTV), is a reusable robotic spacecraft. At this point the plane plummets, but as it goes deeper into the atmosphere, it regains pitch authority, and at 10km it's enough to regain control and turn it around for a safe landing. Please consider starting a new thread rather than reviving this one. You cannot paste images directly. Welcome to the forums. : : . That's because wings need to have some AoA to the airstream in order to generate much lift. The Rapier, for example, works great as a high-altitude engine, precisely because it can go so fast. However, I've failed to build a vehicle to achieve this (without a hundred retries). Or is it the same for all celestial bodies? AoA built into the wing relative to the plane body is called the angle of incidence, just to help clear up. You do get certain inertial and lever-arm effects, but those aren't really relevant to 'do I have enough lift to stay up'. Things that work at low altitude don't work so well up high and the plane ends up going up and down while slowly losing speed until it can't maintain altitude anymore. 3.) Challenges You could try combining the two. The SR-71 could probably fly higher, but it isn't flying any more. The best answers are voted up and rise to the top, Not the answer you're looking for? You can go above 20km with the J-404 Panther. The maximum cruise altitude is just over 40,000 feet. It may take some practice to hit your target area this way, because you'll be picking up additional horizontal speed, and thus it's possible to under or overshoot. 2022 Take-Two Interactive Software, Inc. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Your decreased flight time means you probably won't make it to your location. You need to do it with what you've got. Unfortunately, most space plane designs are impossible (or at the very least impractical) at your current tech level. Highest and fastest possible is best. General Electric F-404 Afterburning Turbofan, Stratus-V Cylindrified Monopropellant Tank, Kerbodyne KR-2L+ "Rhino" Liquid Fuel Engine, LFB KR-1x2 "Twin-Boar" Liquid Fuel Engine, T-1 Toroidal Aerospike "Dart" Liquid Fuel Engine, S1 SRB-KD25k "Kickback" Solid Fuel Booster, IX-6315 "Dawn" Electric Propulsion System, AE-FF1 Airstream Protective Shell (1.25m), AE-FF3 Airstream Protective Shell (3.75m), PB-NUK Radioisotope Thermoelectric Generator, https://wiki.kerbalspaceprogram.com/index.php?title=J-404_%22Panther%22_Afterburning_Turbofan&oldid=95515. Alternatively, you can assign the afterburner toggle (labelled "switch mode") to an action group if you wish to activate it with a hotkey. Knowing how to design these types of planes make jumping in to SSTO design very easy as there are only a few minor changes that need to be made.Music Credits:1st Song: \"Elephants\" - YouTube Audio Library2nd Song: \"Hot Heat\" - YouTube Audio Library3rd Song: \"Echoes\" - Kasbo - https://soundcloud.com/k-sboWhat game is this? Why do small African island nations perform better than African continental nations, considering democracy and human development? 2022 Take-Two Interactive Software, Inc. You arent doing anything wrong. I would like to know which altitude I have to maintain for my experiments. The idea is to slow the plane to a stall above your landing spot the pop the parachute. If too little air runs into the turbine your combustion chamber will not be able to burn up fuel effectively due to the lack of oxygen. Here's my example of dealing with the situation. High altitude flight is efficient because the air is thinner, and therefore aircraft experience less parasitic drag. - Insane TWR didn't help. Don't be too surprised if KSP's aero model breaks down in edge cases. Hello there. Clear editor. The U-2 is probably the highest altitude aircraft still flying. What you should be concerned about is atmospheric drag, and that's minimized by high-altitude flight. KSP also tends to have very harsh induced drag if angle of attack gets too high. Best way to get down into thicker air and land is to perform what dogfighters called a 'Split-S'. Editing Kerbal Space Program save files for KSO, Rasterpropmonitor for Kerbal Space Program. Create an account to follow your favorite communities and start taking part in conversations. This page was last edited on 22 December 2019, at 20:54. Air temperatures vary with latitude and time of day. TLDR: You need parts you don't have to make a plane that flies that high. Create an account to follow your favorite communities and start taking part in conversations. surface of jool. At that point your engines will be running about .7-.8 efficiency and you will be out of the thicker atmo which will allow you to go faster. If not, please explain why, which I know you have no problem doing! By accepting all cookies, you agree to our use of cookies to deliver and maintain our services and site, improve the quality of Reddit, personalize Reddit content and advertising, and measure the effectiveness of advertising.